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The last episode rustled my jimmies good. It made me mad. But this has to be one of the most agreeable antagonists I've seen in a while. It's messed up, but I agree with the guy, even though I am repulsed by how he goes about playing with lives.
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FLjerry2011 wrote:
Aside from all the great discussions about Akane the Dominator and Sybil System here is a legit question.How did the Sybil system know the cyborg and his dogs were threats went not human?Valid point?Dont get me wrong I like this anime a lot and thought Kogami outsmarted them ans was a highlight too.
The cyborg still has a brain, which is what the Sybil system works off of. It's not clear whether the dogs were completely mechanical or cyborgs. I'll assume that the guns can completely unlock for mechanical threats. There was a hint of that back in episode 3, where they visited the drone plant. As I recall, Kougami was able to fire at the drones.
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deadpanditto wrote:
FLjerry2011 wrote:
Aside from all the great discussions about Akane the Dominator and Sybil System here is a legit question.How did the Sybil system know the cyborg and his dogs were threats went not human?Valid point?Dont get me wrong I like this anime a lot and thought Kogami outsmarted them ans was a highlight too.
The cyborg still has a brain, which is what the Sybil system works off of. It's not clear whether the dogs were completely mechanical or cyborgs. I'll assume that the guns can completely unlock for mechanical threats. There was a hint of that back in episode 3, where they visited the drone plant. As I recall, Kougami was able to fire at the drones.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they do a scan on the remains of the dog and it was the brain of a man?
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NoBreyner wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they do a scan on the remains of the dog and it was the brain of a man?
I'm pretty sure they were scanning the remains of Toyohisa Senguji.
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Quick question, if anythings been said about it, but - Could she not have scanned Yuki(?) her friend, and then shot at the bad guy person?
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For the sake of argument, I really don't think Makishima had any tricks up his sleeve in regards to the shotgun. If this wasn't a show, and Akane was a cold thinker and skilled handler of a shotgun, I feel like Shogo is the type of guy to let himself die for the test. It doesn't appear to me that he's trying to make a point, or living for some greater purpose. It doesn't seem like he has any reason that he feels he needs to live, except that he's curious. I get the feeling that he is completely fine with dying for, i guess I'll call it, "entertainment."
I don't think he threw the shotgun down because he knew he wouldn't die. It looks like he threw it down to see if he would die, or rather, if she would kill him. Obviously, he's the antagonist, so he's not going to die. However, I think it's somewhat important to think about whether he was being serious about giving Akane a chance. I hear a lot of people on the thread saying that he would have a trick up his sleeve anyway, but I think that may be a misreading of his personality and motivation. I genuinely think that he had no other plans to avoid dying if she was serious about killing him. Granted, I also think he expected her to do what she did, but I don't think that shows any difference in his intentions.
Also,
deadpanditto wrote:
We saw Kougami battling Makishima at the start of the series. Kougami was fighting like a man possessed. So, he's been driven into a rage for some reason. I'd say that reason would be Akane.
To me, Kogami doesn't look enraged at all in that fight. I've re-watched that opening sequence a few times since it's aired (I just thought it was really cool), and honestly, it looks like he has come to a point where he understands his enemy (Makishima). He looks pretty calm and controlled throughout, and Akane (Narrator at the time) even says "they understood each other better than anyone else." I don't really get an "enraged" vibe at all from that sequence and I think that, by the time they meet, they will have explored each other quite a bit -- to the point that Kogami will start to recognize himself in the enemy. Although I agree that Akane might become the reason he's there. Other than that, the rest of your theory was pretty square with mine, although I never considered that the tower might house the Sibyl System. That certainly would make for an interesting climax.
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Phoenixian wrote:
Quick question, if anythings been said about it, but - Could she not have scanned Yuki(?) her friend, and then shot at the bad guy person?
I think the very first scan was on Yuki, when Makisima was still using her as a human shield. If I remember correctly, Akane didn't look surprised about the crime coefficient until the second scan. I interpret that to mean that the first scan was on Yuki, although my memory could be off about the events. Either way, I don't think that Yuki was over the limit yet. |
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Sorry for the late response. I had a busy day yesterday. Anyway.
deadpanditto wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide And it's fair enough reasoning and I see your points. However, I have to disagree with "She should've known that at a certain point, she will face a similar situation like the one she faced." The Sybil system has been in place for over a generation. At this point, there was no expectation that such a scenario could have happened, otherwise a fail-safe would have been put in place. That's the whole point of the Sybil/Dominator system: point and shoot. The only choices Inspectors have are whether or not to shoot, and how to use their Enforcers. She was alone. From what I've gathered, that's not a recommended scenario.
And one other point, shooting to kill someone is very difficult. There's plenty of documented research that shows most untrained people will have great difficult doing this. Given the stress Akane was going through, I thought her reaction was entirely reasonable. She was forced into a situation which was unprecedented for her, so her mind effectively shut down. Again, that's not uncommon.
I understand that their world is too reliant on the Sybil system. However, if someone works as and inspector in the force, shouldn't they be prepared for a similar situation? Whether the hostage is someone close to them or a stranger. Yes they are trained to use the Dominators and rely on the Sybil system, but that's one of the reasons that the series wants to show.
kitsuneshoujo wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide Viva you ever fired a shotgun before? Those things can be either loaded with buckshot (tiny pellets), or slugs. The anime didnt specify which was being loaded by the cyborg guy, but chances are Akane wouldnt know either. they dont use ammo rounds anymore, if it was shot that was in the gun then she could have killed or seriously injured her friend. If it was slugs, she could have missed the guy and killed her friend. The Dominators do everything for them but pull the trigger... and probably aiming too.
Also youre kinda forgetting that people in her society are conditioned from childhood to believe in Sybil and that everything it says is correct and infallible. She was morally torn between knowing that the guy deserved to die and she should stop him, but if she did, her hue would get corrupted and she would get tossed in with the hounds. A conflict of interests between using something she had no experience in, and letting a computer AI do her thinking for her.
If anything, you should hate the society that raised her, not Akane.
Actually yes I've fired a shotgun numerous times while hunting, but I'm no expert when it comes to it. I do realize how their world relies too much on the Sybil system. I'm the kind of person that if I had the chance to help in anyway, I just can't stand there doing nothing.
papagolfwhiskey wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide I find your argument interesting and valid thought I do disagree with your conclusion in the sense that. I for one, neither hate nor blame Akane for that scene.
1) she was scripted to fail. Just like you can't get a happy ending out of Mass Effect 3, there was no way the authors were going let her enter the second act of the show unscathed. and they certainly weren't going to let her solve the case.
2) I think it's a mistake to judge Akane by what we think we know. We are not the products of her fictional world. Most of whom with their state dictated information and constant mental hygiene, probably take "Sheltered" to levels we neither comprehend or respect. Akane didn't know the big bad guy as well as even we do with various 'fly on the wall' scenes that we were privy to, She probably isn't even aware of half the tv tropes that we find stale about most TV police show. I suspect most of us in this world and certainly on this forum would have pretty 'cloudy hues' (especially after watching some of the trippier anime out there).
3) She was an ACE at school and should know better, is a fallacy as well. Ask any veteran cop, any experienced Nurse, any hard bitten social worker. about the feel good-by-the-book BS that composed 90% of what they were graded on in school and they'll tell you it doesn't mean a thing compared to what they learned from their sempai on the job. Akane was given NO on the job training she was thrown in sink-or-swim right in to the deep end of the pool. Frankly I think her being a sucessful product of the system facing something that defied the very underpinning of her existance would be very paralyzing. Meeting a criminal who couldn't be judged even though he was an obvious criminal would have been as mind boggling as meeting someone who could defy gravity or learning that the world WAS Flat after all.
4) The above not withstanding, I can think of reasons with my own training and experience why following the big bad's scenario exactly to his terms would be the wrong choice.
a) it was the big bad's scenario. He wanted her to find the will to kill. And surely had something up his sleeve (at best had she pleasingly surprised him the show would have been over and she'd be a new Enforcer, see 1 above)
b) NEVER trust a found weapon/ammunition. you have know way of knowing if it was rigged, expired or just poorly maintained.
c) It was a SHOTGUN. if you tried center-of-mass on the big bad, odds are you'd be putting a stray pellet into your best friend's throat.(That said I'd have taken taken a two hand tight to shoulder grip and tried to take out his Right Knee. (and prayed any stray pellet didn't 'golden bb' for my friends femoral artery))
Personally I feel sorry for Akane and do not hate her. But I do understand your reasoning. I'd suggest the person who deserves your hate is the bad writer who imposed those choices on her.
EDIT
Please note that in no way am I telling you that you are wrong on an absolute sense. I just find these sorts opinions interesting to discuss. and if we all agreed or just shut up after one sentence there'd be nothing to talk about.
This is just a matter of opinion and in fact I like people like who respect other people's opinions just like I respect yours. I agree with your argument that we are not fictional characters in the world of the series, thus we don't know how exactly we would feel if we relied on the Sybil system too much like they do. Now I for one looking forward to see where does the story goes. How will Yuki's death will help develop Akane's character. I'm just speaking for myself in our world's perspective. If I had the chance, I won't just stand there doing nothing and not helping a friend. |
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viva_cmpunker wrote:
If I had the chance, I won't just stand there doing nothing and not helping a friend.
I definitely agree with this.
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viva_cmpunker wrote:
Sorry for the late response. I had a busy day yesterday. Anyway.
deadpanditto wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide And it's fair enough reasoning and I see your points. However, I have to disagree with "She should've known that at a certain point, she will face a similar situation like the one she faced." The Sybil system has been in place for over a generation. At this point, there was no expectation that such a scenario could have happened, otherwise a fail-safe would have been put in place. That's the whole point of the Sybil/Dominator system: point and shoot. The only choices Inspectors have are whether or not to shoot, and how to use their Enforcers. She was alone. From what I've gathered, that's not a recommended scenario.
And one other point, shooting to kill someone is very difficult. There's plenty of documented research that shows most untrained people will have great difficult doing this. Given the stress Akane was going through, I thought her reaction was entirely reasonable. She was forced into a situation which was unprecedented for her, so her mind effectively shut down. Again, that's not uncommon.
I understand that their world is too reliant on the Sybil system. However, if someone works as and inspector in the force, shouldn't they be prepared for a similar situation? Whether the hostage is someone close to them or a stranger. Yes they are trained to use the Dominators and rely on the Sybil system, but that's one of the reasons that the series wants to show.
kitsuneshoujo wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide Viva you ever fired a shotgun before? Those things can be either loaded with buckshot (tiny pellets), or slugs. The anime didnt specify which was being loaded by the cyborg guy, but chances are Akane wouldnt know either. they dont use ammo rounds anymore, if it was shot that was in the gun then she could have killed or seriously injured her friend. If it was slugs, she could have missed the guy and killed her friend. The Dominators do everything for them but pull the trigger... and probably aiming too.
Also youre kinda forgetting that people in her society are conditioned from childhood to believe in Sybil and that everything it says is correct and infallible. She was morally torn between knowing that the guy deserved to die and she should stop him, but if she did, her hue would get corrupted and she would get tossed in with the hounds. A conflict of interests between using something she had no experience in, and letting a computer AI do her thinking for her.
If anything, you should hate the society that raised her, not Akane.
Actually yes I've fired a shotgun numerous times while hunting, but I'm no expert when it comes to it. I do realize how their world relies too much on the Sybil system. I'm the kind of person that if I had the chance to help in anyway, I just can't stand there doing nothing.
papagolfwhiskey wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide I find your argument interesting and valid thought I do disagree with your conclusion in the sense that. I for one, neither hate nor blame Akane for that scene.
1) she was scripted to fail. Just like you can't get a happy ending out of Mass Effect 3, there was no way the authors were going let her enter the second act of the show unscathed. and they certainly weren't going to let her solve the case.
2) I think it's a mistake to judge Akane by what we think we know. We are not the products of her fictional world. Most of whom with their state dictated information and constant mental hygiene, probably take "Sheltered" to levels we neither comprehend or respect. Akane didn't know the big bad guy as well as even we do with various 'fly on the wall' scenes that we were privy to, She probably isn't even aware of half the tv tropes that we find stale about most TV police show. I suspect most of us in this world and certainly on this forum would have pretty 'cloudy hues' (especially after watching some of the trippier anime out there).
3) She was an ACE at school and should know better, is a fallacy as well. Ask any veteran cop, any experienced Nurse, any hard bitten social worker. about the feel good-by-the-book BS that composed 90% of what they were graded on in school and they'll tell you it doesn't mean a thing compared to what they learned from their sempai on the job. Akane was given NO on the job training she was thrown in sink-or-swim right in to the deep end of the pool. Frankly I think her being a sucessful product of the system facing something that defied the very underpinning of her existance would be very paralyzing. Meeting a criminal who couldn't be judged even though he was an obvious criminal would have been as mind boggling as meeting someone who could defy gravity or learning that the world WAS Flat after all.
4) The above not withstanding, I can think of reasons with my own training and experience why following the big bad's scenario exactly to his terms would be the wrong choice.
a) it was the big bad's scenario. He wanted her to find the will to kill. And surely had something up his sleeve (at best had she pleasingly surprised him the show would have been over and she'd be a new Enforcer, see 1 above)
b) NEVER trust a found weapon/ammunition. you have know way of knowing if it was rigged, expired or just poorly maintained.
c) It was a SHOTGUN. if you tried center-of-mass on the big bad, odds are you'd be putting a stray pellet into your best friend's throat.(That said I'd have taken taken a two hand tight to shoulder grip and tried to take out his Right Knee. (and prayed any stray pellet didn't 'golden bb' for my friends femoral artery))
Personally I feel sorry for Akane and do not hate her. But I do understand your reasoning. I'd suggest the person who deserves your hate is the bad writer who imposed those choices on her.
EDIT
Please note that in no way am I telling you that you are wrong on an absolute sense. I just find these sorts opinions interesting to discuss. and if we all agreed or just shut up after one sentence there'd be nothing to talk about.
This is just a matter of opinion and in fact I like people like who respect other people's opinions just like I respect yours. I agree with your argument that we are not fictional characters in the world of the series, thus we don't know how exactly we would feel if we relied on the Sybil system too much like they do. Now I for one looking forward to see where does the story goes. How will Yuki's death will help develop Akane's character. I'm just speaking for myself in our world's perspective. If I had the chance, I won't just stand there doing nothing and not helping a friend.
I agree with you there and am not sure how I'd react if put in a similar situation. where a friend was being threatened by someone I suspected was a villian. Fear for my friend fear of making a mistake. Incoherent RAGE at the person who tried to use fear to dictate people's actions (I hate bullies, hostage takers, terrorists, when confronted with such I RAGE. ). Desire to help mixed with the concerns I mention above. (item 4) it would be 4b and 4c that would cause me to hesitate. As such I'd probably play for time. Evil people like to gloat and demsontrate/revel in their petty power. If a bit of trembling would keep my friend alive a few seconds long (for help to arrive, for me to decide) then I'd tremble like the most windblown leaf that ever trembled. In the end ... I THINK I personally would have pulled the trigger. probably as I said going for his outside knee. That way the shot would likely scatter to his groin (WIN!!) and hopefully not hit my friends femoral artery. (though that would be a bit of a 'golden bb')
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theYchromosome wrote:
For the sake of argument, I really don't think Makishima had any tricks up his sleeve in regards to the shotgun. If this wasn't a show, and Akane was a cold thinker and skilled handler of a shotgun, I feel like Shogo is the type of guy to let himself die for the test. It doesn't appear to me that he's trying to make a point, or living for some greater purpose. It doesn't seem like he has any reason that he feels he needs to live, except that he's curious. I get the feeling that he is completely fine with dying for, i guess I'll call it, "entertainment."
I don't think he threw the shotgun down because he knew he wouldn't die. It looks like he threw it down to see if he would die, or rather, if she would kill him. Obviously, he's the antagonist, so he's not going to die. However, I think it's somewhat important to think about whether he was being serious about giving Akane a chance. I hear a lot of people on the thread saying that he would have a trick up his sleeve anyway, but I think that may be a misreading of his personality and motivation. I genuinely think that he had no other plans to avoid dying if she was serious about killing him. Granted, I also think he expected her to do what she did, but I don't think that shows any difference in his intentions.
Problem I have is we the audience knew he didn't need a trick. It was too early in the show for the big bad to die. or be captured (unless he planned to be)
though I do agree that is IS possible that he's some sort of ultimate experimenter quite willing to die to be proven right. or to witness the free will he desires to see in action. That is what he's about after all. (as well as corruption and the compassing of many deaths but.. pass on he's got cool white hair and a sexy voice right?)
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I am still havent finished christmas shopping but I am here checking this thread and its fun reading the discussion here !!!
I agree with some ....
I would say that Makishima was indeed serious about tossing the shotgun to Akane chan . I dont think he had any trick up his sleeve either and all he was doing was to see if the inspector Akane can indeed make the decision to shoot him and see if he dies or not. I dont think he is afraid to die either but I feel he knows what the answer was already but hoped he was proven wrong but we all know what answer he got.
For an antagonist Makishima is actually very logical to me. I just sounded like Spock  . So I like him a lot as a bad guy. Its almost how I like Dexter but not his doings.
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Yeah, Makishima was definitely pretty sure that Akane wasn't going to kill him. Even disregarding all her emotions and whatnot, she's never used a gun like that before. I mean, she tried to use it with one hand lol.
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Psycho-Pass and Blast of Tempest are both driving me insane with this weekly waiting.
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Yeap we will be waiting at least till the 2nd week of January for Psycho Pass
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damn, really?!?
brutal cliffhanger trolls
Makishima is going to be an even more fun villain than I expected.
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